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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
   |
Posted - 2014.06.12 21:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
+1 remove learning attribute enhancements via implants and / or convert to boosters (to keep ISK sink)
IMO the learning implants 1) hinder younger capsuleers to take risks they otherwise would and 2) create frustration in case of loss, and hence contribute to the bad new player retention. The only way to find out probably is to make the change. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 13:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It can easily be argued that the choice of implants, and the tradeoff thereof, is intended.
And your argument of "we can only find out by making the change" is beyond asinine. I can make precisely the same argument about removing CONCORD, or making NPC corps subject to wardecs.
Yeah, it's easy to argue with CCP's intention, but it's also weak as we don't know for sure. For me it's a mistake to force people to choose between getting faster into the game and practicing PvP at low cost. But I could be wrong and changing this would not make any difference in larger scale, I can't proof it.
BTW, in contrast to your examples for change requests, the removal of learning implants would not harm any part of New Eden's population. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 16:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:
BTW, in contrast to your examples for change requests, the removal of learning implants would not harm any part of New Eden's population.
Well, except, you know, the people who sell those. It's not like they come from nowhere and cost nothing, you realize. Implants are a fairly important part of the LP economy.
Accepted. They can be replaced by learning boosters with limited duration (e.g. weeks) |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 23:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:
BTW, in contrast to your examples for change requests, the removal of learning implants would not harm any part of New Eden's population.
Well, except, you know, the people who sell those. It's not like they come from nowhere and cost nothing, you realize. Implants are a fairly important part of the LP economy. Accepted. They can be replaced by learning boosters with limited duration (e.g. weeks) Which hurts new players pretty badly.
This depends on the cost. The boosters have to be much cheaper than the implants. Compare it with the direction software business is heading for, it's the move from a classic licensing model to subscription fees. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 04:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, it doesn't depend on the cost. It's an isk tax on playing the game at the same level as a veteran. Especially depending on new player income, it is a crippling blow to newbies being able to narrow the gap compared to veteran players.
Well, there are already many other taxes to play the game, clone costs, NPC taxes, insurance, ... I don't see why learning boosters are any different.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 04:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Oh, and I just realized you ran into Malcanis' law on this one.
If we actually did get rid of learning implants, then there is absolutely no reason to not use Snakes and Slaves and other powerful implants at all times, if you can afford it. Because now you wouldn't even have to make the choice between training implants and combat implants.
With the buff to learning attribute enhancements of those sets this is already now. By reducing the difference between pure learning and combined sets further, the whole concept became 'more obsolete'. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 10:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
Snip ... A lot of good argumentation
.
Even worse, the buffed pirate implant attributes prefer the space-rich and veteran players, and shift the chances towards them. You could argue that the new low grades will become cheap enough to be used by new players, but I think +1 is not sufficient to remove the choice problem, and they are still implant sets coming with significant investment, where normally you only need a few lower tier fitting implants to get better DPS or tank.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 12:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right?
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 13:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right? Neither are you, NPC alt. But as far as "bubbles!", if you're going to take a fight in null, then nothing stops you from jumping into a clean clone. It's routine to do so, in fact.
Unfortunately as I'm my own "alt" (aka SOLO, single account player *sigh*!) I lost my pod iirc 3 times to bubbles in NullSec and in WHs. Actually I was able to escape luckily in the gap between two bubbles once. But the required clone jumps are exactly the point, if I would like to do NullSec stuff every day I'm penalized with much slower skill progression.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And Genolutions cost pocket change, by the way.
I don't want to get caught in a T1 frig/cruiser plus 100mil clone. Maybe this is fun for everyone else, but I don't think I like that idea.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
And you aren't using a jump clone whilst PvPing in Null? Who's fault is losing implants then?
Please read my and others' comments above.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 20:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I did read your posts and you are not penalized on training rate compared to others even if you choose to PvP every day. You have a choice as to what level of risk and cost of any implant (training or otherwise) that you are willing to fly with. You train at the exact same rate as anyone else before implants and can choose which if any implants you want to fly with. There is a choice to be made and a risk/reward balance to make in your own mind.
I stand by the point that the learning implants really don't speed up training by such a degree that they need to be removed.
You guess it, I don't agree on this. +4 or +5 sets bring a significant boost in my opinion which I don't want to miss, and +3 implant sets are to expensive to loose every other day. Maybe in 2-3 years this is not that relevant anymore (but then there are the astronomical clone replacement costs ...).
I'm sure most of the more advanced EvE players are combining both by jumping back and forth between their learning/missioning and PvP clones. So we have an established mechanic (choice) nobody actually takes but instead evades if possible. The consequence of this behavior in my opinion is less PvP content and an obstacle (whether perceived or real does not matter) for new players experiencing all parts of EvE. Thus I vote for a change.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 20:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Would you accept just removing +4 and +5 'pure learning' implants, without any attribute increase?
Hmm, that sounds a bit half-assed, and has some side effects. As pointed out earlier in this thread there is also an economy around implants which would be harmed by removing items. Also you need to remove the enhancements from the combined implants as otherwise people would just plug those in their safe ratting clone. I still think a proper conversion into boosters would be the best solution.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 08:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Vincintius Agrippa wrote: Even after this change people will find another reason not to undock or fight. Learning imps have nothing to do with that. *some people* I wonder just how many people are out there that don't undock only because they don't want to lose their implants. I know I'm one of those.
I'm keeping my char in the learning/PvE clone over the week and switch to one of the PvP clones when I know I have plenty of time to pew pew, to make the clone jump worth it, mostly during the weekend. Without the learning implant attribute boost, I for sure would stay in the PvP clone per default ...
... I haven't done serious PvE in the last couple of months, cause it's boring as hell and frustrating if you have to run from every fight, you might lose.
I'm my own NPC alt. |
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